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The Gay Marriage and Cake Baking Controversy. What If…
I am diverging a bit here from my regular hot topic of sexual intimacy in marriage, to chime in on what is becoming an increasingly volatile topic.
Christians and non-believers are weighing in mightily, and I want to throw my opinion on the table.
The debate is about whether businesses should be able to refuse service to homosexuals, on the grounds that the homosexual lifestyle is contrary to the business owner’s religious beliefs.
The businesses garnering the most media attention on this are those involved the wedding industry.
Bakers, florists, caterers and photographers, in particular, are caught in the crosshairs of the dialogue, as increasingly more states are recognizing same-sex unions.
In general, the camps break down like this:
Those people OPPOSED to forcing businesses to offer services to homosexuals say that the businesses should have the religious freedom to refuse, because if they were to agree to provide service in these situations, they (the business owners) would be condoning something they believe is sin.
Those IN FAVOR of forcing businesses to offer services to homosexuals say that the businesses are discriminating against people based on their sexual orientation and such discrimination is wrong and should not be tolerated.
I know Christians in both camps, and I’m not overly interested in moving someone from one camp to the other. I’m also not naive enough to think I could even do that anyway.
But.
What if there is a better response to this?
What if love and conviction can co-exist?
And I am not talking about a Kumbaya sort of love, but rather a biblical sort of love.
For lack of a better cliche, I just don’t think that cake baking would have been a mountain Jesus would have died on the side of.
And yet people in both camps of this debate are clamoring to die on the side of the cake baking mountain. Good Lord, there has got to be a better response.
What if love and conviction can co-exist?
To see this play out, we need to look no further than Jesus’ response regarding the adulterous woman (Read John 8:1-11).
The Pharisees think they have found the perfect opportunity to leverage Jesus’ message against Him.
Standing before Him is a known adulterous woman, and how does He respond? With kindness. That is where He started. (The Pharisees’ plan backfires on them).
Jesus engaged her in conversation. Treated her with respect. Did not condemn her. Love was His foundation.
But where does their conversation eventually arrive?
It arrives with Jesus saying leave your life of sin. Her adulterous lifestyle did not honor God, so He told her to stop doing it.
Yet His tone of respect and love never wavered.
Some would argue it was the most loving thing He could do — to receive her with respect AND simultaneously tell her to go and sin no more.
And honestly, we don’t know if that is indeed what she did, do we?
We don’t know if she stopped her adulterous activities. It has never been God’s responsibility that someone stop sinning. Never.
If Jesus is our model, then neither should it be our responsibility that someone stop sinning.
It is our responsibility to give an answer for the hope we profess.
“Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened. But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.” — 1 Peter 3:13-15
If I owned a bakery and a gay couple wanted me to bake a cake for them, I would start with love. I would bake the cake. But then I would say, “I don’t think this lifestyle you are living is God’s best for you. I believe God has something better for you.”
All in a tone of love.
Whether they would agree with me that their lifestyle is sinful is not my responsibility.
I am not the Holy Spirit. Battles with sin are waged within a person’s heart between them and God alone. That is where my battles with my own sin are waged, and that is where your battles with your sin are waged.
(If we wanted to dig into this further, we could look closely at John 4:1-26, where we see Jesus encountering another adulterous woman, only this time He does not command her to leave her life of sin but rather simply proclaims who He is and let’s her ponder the significance on her own).
The reality is that just as Jesus did, we encounter sinners all the time.
Let’s say you own a coffee shop and a customer walks in who you know is cheating on his wife or disrespecting his parents.
Or let’s say you own a gas station and you see a customer pull up to the pump who you know is spreading gossip about her neighbors or operating her business unethically.
All are sins, correct?
In those situations, are you going to refuse to sell the man a cup of coffee or refuse to let the woman fill her gas tank? And if you do allow them to do business with you, have you endorsed their sin?
It’s kind of crazy when we look at it that way, right?
Someone fills their gas tank at your gas station and that one act — you selling them gas — means you think there’s nothing wrong with them spreading lies about their neighbor? That is a ridiculous correlation, if you ask me.
If we want to be really literal, everyone we encounter, whether in a business situation or not, whether we are a customer or a provider, is a sinner. (As is the case when people encounter us, but we tend to be much slower to acknowledge our own sin).
I can already hear many of you saying that my examples of the coffee shop and the gas station are not an apples-to-apples comparison to those businesses directly involved in the wedding industry.
Some would argue that the cake bakers, wedding photographers, florists and caterers are in a uniquely challenging situation, because their services usually require more “participation” in the event.
The photographer, for example, would actually have to be at the commitment ceremony and take the photos. The caterer would actually have to set up and serve the couple. The florist would actually have to create a boutonniere that one man is going to wear while committing his life to another man.
But why are we so quick to make the leap that the photographer, caterer and florist in such business transactions have condoned something?
We need a foundation of love intricately entwined with our own conviction.
Personally, I’m not a fan of gay marriage or gay romantic relationships, primarily because I don’t see them represented in the Bible. I think God could have set up marriage however He wanted, but what I see through His Word is that He chose to establish the covenant of marriage as being only between a man and a woman.
BUT my faith conviction — my interpretation of scripture — does not wipe out my ability to treat with kindness someone who holds a different conviction. Love and conviction can co-exist. They are not mutually exclusive.
I can bake a cake for someone and still believe what they are doing is sin. That’s where true freedom exists — where true “rights” prevail — to love and respect someone even if we don’t agree with their moral stance.
Who among us is not called to do this on a regular basis in our workplaces, families, neighborhoods and community?
Jesus engaged with sinners all the time, loving them right where they were but simultaneously calling them to a life of repentance from sin.
God’s love is not an endorsement of sin.
A cake is not an endorsement of sin.
Are we as Christians so insecure in our faith and the ultimate sovereignty of the Lord that we are not able to stand on a foundation of love without thinking such demonstration of love equates to an endorsement of sin?
Love and conviction can co-exist. Let’s hope so, because that’s the example Jesus is laying out to us all the time. You can love someone, yet at the same time pray for Holy Spirit revelation in their heart.
You can love someone, yet at the same time speak up about what you believe is sin in their life.
If that’s not what Jesus was doing with the adulterous woman, then what was He doing?
Sadly, the word tolerate in our encounters with each other has increasingly meant “you must believe what I believe.” Yet the true definition of tolerate at its core is, “You and I don’t believe the same things, but I still will treat you with respect.”
It seems to me that the Christian businesses who want to refuse service are consistently painted as mean-spirited. But couldn’t the same thing be said about those people who are viciously disregarding the business owners’ convictions, even perpetuating a climate of hate toward them?
Oh the irony.
Both camps could learn a lot from the true meaning of tolerate. “You and I don’t believe the same things, but I still will treat you with respect.”
In my opinion, tolerance of this sort would lead to two outcomes on this particular controversy…
Fewer gay couples (and their advocates) forcing their agenda on Christian business owners.
More Christian business owners providing services for gay couples with kindness and respect.
Do you believe love and conviction can co-exist? What do you really think about this entire controversy?
I know I will hear from those of you who hate what I’ve written and those who love it, but I welcome the dialogue.
I can tolerate that.
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I think this is a well-balanced and scripturally correct analysis of the problem. And both camps can find agreement with their position in the Bible. I think that is why the Bible is such a great “life manual”.
You have to read, pray, and then decide what the Bible dictates for your own life. Don’t use the legislature to do it for you.
I agree that Jesus wouldn’t die on the mountain of wedding cakes. He’s probably wondering what all the fuss is about, with people blowing other people up over “religion” in so many heart-breaking places.
The most important thing you said, in my view, is that, paraphrasing, “If people can’t serve or provide a service while simultaneously providing that good service while disagreeing with a different lifestyle, the world would pretty much stop.”
I remember when I was a pre-teen, my parents wouldn’t let me go over to this one kid’s house, because the parents drank wine with their meals. I remember when I first saw this rule against the backdrop of Jesus’s first miracle, turning water into wine so the wedding feast of Canaan could continue. From my 13 year old perspective, it was inconsistent. Now, I realize they wanted to keep me from that lifestyle, so that I wouldn’t drink. Several of my relatives died of alcoholism.
A final point: Whether you disagree with LGBT lifestyle or not, people of that persuasion were born with that predisposition. God made them that way. I think too many people are way too concerned about what others are doing, and using legislation to force their beliefs on others. A final, final point: If I were gay, and wanted a wedding, I’ll bet I could find a gay florist, baker, photographer, and would probably prefer it anyway.
@Anonymous… thank you so much for your comment. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment.
The only comment I would add is that your assessment that people who are gay are born with that predisposition is a point of contention in this whole debate. Some people believe homosexuals are born that way and some people do not believe they are born that way. There are Christians in both camps. This is another example of the need for tolerance, where we need to “agree to disagree” so to speak.
As to your last point, I definitely find it fascinating that someone who is gay would even want to do business with someone who is opposed to doing business with them. If I were gay and getting married, I too would look to find a florist, baker and photographer who would support my choice, as opposed to try to force a reluctant business owner to provide services to me.
Thanks again for the comment!
The controversy isn’t about whether bakeries or photographers will serve homosexual people. It’s whether they will provide services for a same-sex wedding. NOBODY is saying they don’t serve gays. At least not that I have heard.
What Christians are saying is that they cannot in good conscience participate in a same-sex wedding because it would be a celebration of something that is not actually a wedding and which makes a mockery of marriage.
These people serve birthday cakes and cupcakes and all kinds of other things to homosexuals. They take pictures of birthday parties and graduations for homosexuals. They just don’t provide same-sex wedding cakes or take photos of same-sex weddings. That’s an important distinction that a lot of people are somehow missing.
And whether or not these people are right in refusing these services, it is their sincerely held belief that participating in such a ceremony would be wrong. Thus, they have a right to refuse to engage in those activities, whether other people agree with their position or not. That’s the whole idea of religious freedom – that even if you disagree with me, I still have a right to act based on my beliefs. It’s not freedom if you’re not allowed to disagree.
@Lindsay Harold… thank you for your comment. I do appreciate the dialogue tremendously!
A christian can not be a witness to the lewd act of gay marriage. Jesus says no! His word says no! That’s what counts here! No consenting act in a man woman marriage can be wrong but for same sex it’s always wrong no ands if or buts about it. Let’s never shame our savior into this life style.
@Normal… I think you missed the point of my post, but thank for taking the time to read it and to comment. I appreciate you stopping by the blog.
Your thoughts are my thoughts on this. Yes, it IS complicated and it seems we believers are so afraid of being seen as condoning behaviour we may believe is sinful, so we avoid the interactions. But as you said, love and conviction CAN coexist, can’t they? I am learning to err on the side of love, not judgment. Good post!
This is a very, very difficult topic, and I commend your choice to speak out.
I do agree with your statement that the word tolerance is not understood properly, and I believe that we as Christians need to reexamine our understanding and practice of tolerance.
However, I don’t feel the story of the woman caught in adultery is truly an apples-to-apples comparison. The Pharisees brought her to Jesus for judgement, and he showed her mercy instead. The woman did not come to Jesus and say she wanted to continue in her adultery and would like for Him to help her in this by keeping watch and warning her if the Pharisees are coming again, or by by providing her with a better place to keep her sin hidden.
Yes, the story does teach us that loving the sinner is far more important than hating the sin. But I have a hard time applying this story to the response we should have when asked to provide a service to someone while in the middle of an act of sin. And I will be the first to admit my views are not perfect either – I, too, am just as guilty a sinner, saved only by grace.
I also believe this is very different from providing service to homosexuals that does not directly involve the sin, such as providing catering, flowers, or even a location for the funeral service of a homosexual. Here the intent is to remember the person, not promote their sin, and what better way than this to show the love of Christ to the family and friends of that person.
I don’t think there is a clear example given in the Bible for when a person is asked to provide a service that could potentially be viewed as “condoning sin”. But I am very grateful for your challenge to consider the real meaning of tolerance. And I am even more grateful that through Jesus we have the ability to love the sinner.
Julie, You make a good point that we encounter sinners all the time (even when we’re alone!). For some reason, homosexuality is often singled out for special treatment.
Showing love and respect is not the same as condoning sin, and condemnation never leads to real heart change. It is God’s love, not his rejection, that draws people to him, and he’s the only one who can change a heart.
On a slightly different note, I would want to err on the side of allowing owners to run their businesses as they see fit. At least it’s better than the alternative.
Yes, you are right. Whether sexual orientation is a choice or inborn is a subject of discussion. I guess it is so much a part of who you are–whether you prefer homosexual or heterosexual behavior–that I question whether anyone on earth should be judging that. Here is a balanced article on whether people are born with a homosexual or heterosexual preference, or whether they choose it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/23/homosexuality–choice-born-science_n_2003361.html
It has lots of good references, for people who want to consider this aspect. But it still goes back to whether our legislatures need to be making laws about it.
Julie, I have several thoughts and I’ll do my best to explain each.
1. I believe the Bible warns in numerous places to be wairy of both scandal and leading others to sin. If someone in general cooperates with evil it can be seen as endorsing it. Certainly if I witness a robbery and don’t report what I’ve seen my offense isn’t as great as the thief but I might have trouble looking myself in the mirror. I think the same can be said for attending a wedding where let’s just say both parties aren’t free to enter into marriage convent for one reason or another, my presence implies I support that union.
2. Let’s expand on your example of someone having an affair
Suppose I managed a motel, and I knew the room you were renting was not for your wife perhaps I know your wife. My duty would seem to go further than to remind the couple this isn’t God’s plan.
3. Tolerance of all types of people is a very good thing. Tolerance of all behaviors under the sun certainly can’t be. I can think of many behaviors the Bible and society agree are always wrong and would never be tolerated (how about an easy one like murder with a gun). But now we are increasingly at a point where society and the Bible are at odds with what should be tolerated.
Thanks for a great article! I’ve nudged some of these idea with friends, and have not had a positive response. I love the idea of not closing the door to speaking the truth.
Here’s where it gets tricky for me….
Every single person they have sold a cake to is a sinner. Every. Single. One.
Do they remind each and every individual that they cater to that God has a better plan for them and that they should do as Jesus told the adulterous woman and “go, and sin no more”?
In my opinion, and it’s just that, an opinion, as a business you should keep your personal opinions about someone’s life to yourself. Unless, your business is a business that revolves around Christianity such as a Christian bookstore and someone comes in looking for Fifty Shades of Grey. “Sorry, we don’t carry that here.”
I understand that these people may not agree with baking a cake for a gay couple and I do feel like the gay couple just stirred up trouble instead of just finding someone else who actually WANTED to make their cake BUT I don’t think they should have turned them down based on their personal religious beliefs. They don’t want to be seen as condoning a sinful behavior but everyone sins. Some peoples’ sins are just more public than others. For all they know they could be baking birthday cakes for some man’s secret girlfriend!
I’m just wondering why I’ve never heard anyone make an attempt to apply Matthew 5: 38-41 to this situation. You know–where Jesus bluntly says that when someone from “the other side” tells you to do something, that you should do MORE than they ask? He never said, “Demand your rights! Stand up for your freedom!” On the contrary, it kind of sounds like He says “Comply with what they ask, and do them one better. And have a good attitude about it.”
Just a thought…
@I’mWithJohn: Inappropriate scripture; applies to being wronged–Instead of seeking revenge, submit AND give extra. Does not say to do wrong to please wrong. Otherwise *why* did Jesus die? All he had to do was admit he was not the Christ AND say the Sanhedrin was right to judge him. Instead, he stuck to what was *right*, submitted to their injustice–even unto death–and by that ransom sacrifice, even extends them the chance for their forgiveness and eternal life
Trying to mix the secular world with the spiritual one invariably leads to messiness.
@Tiffany: Problem with your example is this: “For all they know they could be baking birthday cakes for some man’s secret girlfriend!”
That is *exactly* the point. In your example, *they don’t know*. In the real case, *they DO*, and God does not allow us to *willfully* do what is wrong. Period (Heb 10:26-27) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+10%3A26-27&version=CEV
As Christians, “religious beliefs” over-ride secular ones (Acts 5:27-29)https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+5%3A27-29&version=CEV
Christianity is *a way of life* NOT *a set of beliefs.* It HAS to be, or we’re all just stupid morons with no hope for the future but to become worm food.
Some Final Thoughts:
I seriously don’t think the owners care “one whit” whether their customers were “special.” I am sure they sell to “special” customers all the time without a picosecond’s thought about how or in what manner their customer might be “special”.
If a gun store owner sells a gun to someone they *know* is going to kill someone, would you not call him guilty of murder? Would you not ***applaud*** him for NOT selling the gun? But, now, if the same customer was “special” would you then judge the owner as guilty of “discrimination” against “special” customers?
I am quite sure the bakery owners would have refused to sell the cake to “straight” customers as well if their intentions were to use it in a “special” ceremony. The rejection was because of the known, blatant intent of the customer, not the nature of the customer.
If a nazi concentration-camp survivor were the owner and someone wanted a swastika cake with effigies of dead and mutilated Jewish prisoners being trodden upon by champagne-swilling SS officers, would you *really* force the owner to bake the cake?
Are we truly that deprived and void of decency nowadays? And, notice, not even once did I mention my “personal religious beliefs.”
THANK YOU.
The one common thread on the responses is love. As Christians, whatever we decide we must do in love. The Scriptures are clear that the lifestyle is sinful, that we are to repent from sin, to actuality flee from sin.
Most of the responses, here and everywhere, confuse discrimination against the sinner instead of the sin. Yes, we are all sinners. But, we do not have to help others sin, in fact leading someone astray is better avoided by tying a millstone around our necks and diving into the sea.
The gun shop analogy is more on target, do you sell a gun to a man who says he can’t wait to get home and shoot his wife? A better photography analogy would be to assume the wedding is not a gay wedding, but a porn star wedding. Should the photographer be forced to shoot the wedding, knowing that pornography is a part of the package?
A recent decision out of Kentucky got it right, where the judge sided with the tshirt shop in refusing to print gay pride shirts, as they were able to demonstrate 13 other instances where they were not refusing service to anyone, but they were refusing to print certain messages they found offensive, like racially insensitive messages.
Serve everyone in love, but don’t compromise your conscious, or your calling, or your God, by adding your blessing to the sin.
For the record, I am Minister and frequently do weddings, we are next on the target list, it’s already happened in Idaho.
The law says that services advertised to the public must be available to all comers, no exception. OK, so be it.
I think the real issue for Christians who have been in these ancillary wedding services must now be: Does my doing this implicitly amount to an endorsement and an aiding and abetting of what I understand the Bible to say is sinful? I’m not going to tell my brothers and sisters in Christ what their answer to that question should be. . . but I AM going to tell them that they had better be asking themselves that question right now, before the same sex couple walks in their door to place an order.
Some might decide that it is OK to go along. I don’t judge them. I do have a warning, however: If you are going to make this compromise, where will you draw the line? What will you go along with to stay in business until you must say “no”? I’m sorry to have to tell you this, but the dynamic at work in this is very much like the dynamic that young people face during their dating and courtship. The farther you go before drawing the line, the harder it gets to draw that line and to keep from going too far.
Some might decide that even if they wish all people well and wish to display nothing but love toward all their neighbors, there are some behaviors that the Bible does identify as sinful and they simply can’t approve, aid, and abet. These Christians need to understand that Jesus said that following Him would be costly, and for them, that cost may include abandoning a business and a career and finding some other way to earn a living. This is a hard message, but I’m afraid it is a realistic one. In the present social and legal climate, if you can’t serve even same-sex couples then it is probably time to get out of the ancillary wedding service business.
This has implications not just for these few brothers and sisters in Christ. What about the rest of us? Do we just leave them floundering, and go on to patronize those who can stay in the business by serving all comers? May I suggest that maybe it is time for a radical re-think on the way we do weddings in our Christian communities. Maybe we need to downscale the whole thing. Maybe flowers could just be bought in bulk and those with the talent in our churches could do the arranging themselves. Maybe there are those in our churches who could bake wedding cakes (which might have to be one of more modest size plus several extras rather than one huge thing). Maybe there are those in our churches who have good cameras and are good enough photographers that they could take the wedding pictures as their gift to the bride and groom. Maybe family members and church members could come together to serve a potluck rather than paying beaucoup bucks to caterers. All this is a lot less fancy and glamorous, but it is also a lot less expensive. Maybe that would make it possible for the parents to give the new couple a more generous cash wedding present to help them start out on their way, and maybe that would be much more of a blessing to them than an extravagant one-day bash. If there is no room for faithful Christians in these ancillary wedding service businesses, then maybe Christians don’t even need those services at all.
Thank you Julie for sharing this platform and bringing insight to such a controversial subject matter. I have enjoyed reading your take on the matter as well as all of the comments that have followed…God bless you all. 🙂
@Christian Husband of 38 Years – I believe that you may have opened my eyes to something…Please let me explain. Just recently in past 3 weeks, I had come to the possible decision of taking an online course in event and wedding planning (this was before the SCOTUS ruling). I prayed to God to guide me in this direction as he knows what desire is in my heart, and I asked him to show me if considering a career/business in event/wedding planning is his will for me. And I have still been praying and trying to hear his voice on this matter. Anyway, I have not signed up for the course yet as I am taking my time and really researching to see if this is what he wants me to do. I still feel Him leading, but I’m treading cautiously to be quite honest. According to what Julie shared, I too know Christians from both camps that have different takes on the matter. However, when I read your statement, (actually there were 3 of them that got my attention), it really struck a chord in me.
1. “This is a hard message, but I’m afraid it is a realistic one. In the present social and legal climate, if you can’t serve even same-sex couples then it is probably time to get out of the ancillary wedding service business.”
Yes, I believe you’re absolutely right. Perhaps this whole wedding service business to all comers will not be workable for all business people, especially for some faithful Christian believers. While I do believe that God is calling me to do this, I don’t think in my heart that I can knowingly go against God and what he says about same-sex marriage and possibly supporting it by providing a wedding service to something that is not a true marriage and makes a mockery of an institution that He specifically designed between a man and a woman. I know people have given examples from the Bible of how Jesus encountered sinners and how He interacted with them, but in my opinion, I’m not sure that it’s enough to go on, as there is not an example of Jesus interacting with a homosexual couple that wishes to marry (I know, that might make it a little easier), but then again, perhaps that fact that no example of that is given is actually telling of how Jesus really thinks of the matter other than what he says in the Bible about homosexuality and traditional marriage??
2. “May I suggest that maybe it is time for a radical re-think on the way we do weddings in our Christian communities.”
That is something to really consider because the dynamic of traditional marriage and the celebration for it has now changed, and the contributors to that celebrated union; their roles have forever changed as well. It’s kind of like the days of planning a ‘traditional’ wedding based on Christian values is now a thing of the past. Also not that I’m against having a grand-fashioned wedding, because I did have a fairly nice wedding when I married, but to me it seems that so many couples get caught up in the ‘show’ of the wedding than the actual marriage relationship, and that is what is important or should be…Perhaps your idea of ‘down scaling’ is a good point and something our culture needs to look at.
3. “If there is no room for faithful Christians in these ancillary wedding service businesses, then maybe Christians don’t even need those services at all.”
It was this particular statement here that really got me….You couldn’t have said it any better. Because of this statement, it really has me second guessing if going into business as an event/wedding planner is really what I should do. Maybe this is God’s way of letting me know that this is not the right path for me no matter how good and exciting the career may sound. Who knows perhaps the court ruling came at the right time to let me know that this may not be something I want to embark on because God knows how ‘sticky’ it’s going to get in this business and he’s trying to save me from that…a Pandora’s Box that shouldn’t be opened. However, I guess it’s safe to say that I’m just one of MANY people who are at the same fork in the road where I am trying to decide if they too should make that move…At least I’m not alone.
Anyway, thanks to everyone on this platform and their comments. They have been a great help.
Stay blessed and be encouraged. 🙂
What I would have done is have my company vehicle wrapped with a message in praise of marriage And homosexuality is evil. And I would make it clear that if I am asked to be there that the vehicle would parked right out front with my the message.
Make the cake, And present the message.